In the history of athlete/designer collaborations, Michael Jordan’s work with Tinker Hatfield is the perhaps the most famous. But there’s another duo whose work is just as impressive—Kobe Bryant and Eric Avar. Over the course of a decade, they’ve redefined how signature shoes come to life, revived the low-top, and won multiple championships and gold medals (or at least Kobe has). With the Kobe 10 about to drop, we went to Los Angeles to speak with this duo about Kobe’s ultra-competitive nature and how it impacts both his shoe and his game.